This is one of the great stories. What draws me to it is how hard Zhuangzi’s analogy goes. An owl with half a rotten rat?! Ouch, man, ouch. 😂 How does Huizi recover from that? 🙏
This is fascinating. Thank you. The level of understanding about the Dao one can draw from your exposition and examples is remarkable and certainly goes a long way to comprehending more deeply what the levers of this essential part of Chinese culture offer the world.
Throughout your narrative, the relevance (or not) of consciousness, especially in the example of Hui-zi and Zhuang-zi is something that repeatedly comes to my mind.
Both friends are aware of the strain on their relationship that Hui-zi's upgraded social status as prime minister of Liang has brought to their exchanges. And though Zhuang-zi appears to be the more relaxed or in-tune with the Dao they are both supposed to be embracing or living, it cannot be denied that both are affected by and very much aware of how the world in which they live and which they share to some degree impacts their lives.
Additionally, Zhuang-zi's response to his friend Hui-zi shows 2 traits that are intrinsically related to the reality/phenomenon of consciousness:
1. A true concern and care for the human condition, the suffering and waste it is prone to generate for itself when the Dao is not tred,
and
2. The expression of a form of judgement which differentiates between what is 'of the Dao' and what is not, and which in Zhuang-zi's case allows him to reject direct involvement in the sociopolitical sphere while, in contrast, steers Hui-zi towards the sphere of political power.
Both these traits seem to me at once unavoidable and descriptive of the Dao in so far as they cannot be separated from the individuals involved (in this case Zhuang-zi and Hui-zi) and the way they live their lives.
One more element appears quite important in the 'philosophy of Dao' (if we can call it that). The constant beneficial relatedness to nature, natural phenomena, animals and plants and their more than metaphorical use as ways for humans to correlate to the Dao despite sounding and feeling appropriate could also be considered 'a form of fallacy' in so far as humans by means of self-consciousness (what I call 'the consciousness of being') are quite different from the rest of natural phenomena, from owls, from the North and East seas, from the wind, and nature as a whole. Humans are self-conscious unlike other sentient beings insofar as they can attempt to change the way in which they live their own existence away from nature or against the Dao.
It is therefore, the unavoidable and inevitably influencing play of human consciousness and its two prevailing traits (namely: judgement and care/love for sentient beings and nature including their own selves) that seem to me to point to a living Dao that must perhaps transcend not just nature, but human nature as well.
Not sure whether this makes sense. Let me know what you think if you get some time.
Thanks so much for sharing such wonderful reflections with me! I really like the angle you chose for this story, the human condition in the area of consciousness.
Both philosophers would be very much aware of the strain of relations between them, as you pointed out, knowing that this is what power or political/social status can bring about. Given the peculiar circumstances in the Warring States period, where wars and interstate conflicts were prevalent, both would understand what political participation meant for personal lives, especially scholars like themselves.
From the perspective of political involvement, Hui Tzu may share a similar spirit with the Confucians, having a stock of faith in political order to make things right. The assumption they may also share is that, despite the suffering and human struggles, there might be something reasonable and reliable in the social/political, cultural, and moral order to be built, modified, or reformed.
For Zhuangzi, the problem goes deeper in the sense that human consciousness may not have identified this disconnection with the natural Dao or, even worse, has rationalized this deviation, either for the reason of survival, preservation of power and status, or some other cause that justifies specific modes of action.
It follows that if the fundamental problem is existential and spiritual, can political solutions fix things? If the political order itself were not aligned with the natural order/the Dao (that follows what is natural), would it be possible for it to truly empower and nourish the development of individuals or reform the human condition?
So, for Zhuangzi, there is certainly an element of personal reevaluation and judgment on social and political matters: are things moving in the direction of the Dao? If not, am I eligible to restore things through political participation?
I would say that Zhuangzi's personal rejection of the political post does not necessarily negate his trust in human potential, which is practiced by Hui Tzu's political involvement in this case. He might also be thinking there'll always be someone better positioned and naturally endowed to do the political job than himself.
To improve the quality of existence, therefore, following the Dao is based on the presumption that there is something inherently problematic about the state of existence. This points to the human heart-mind problem. So, judgment from the perspective of the Dao and care/empathy toward the myriad things become a path of transcendence, for we can only see things clearly with a particular distance and become detached when the force of ego and human-centric inclinations are eliminated.
This is one of the great stories. What draws me to it is how hard Zhuangzi’s analogy goes. An owl with half a rotten rat?! Ouch, man, ouch. 😂 How does Huizi recover from that? 🙏
Zhuangzi being too sharp for his dear friend Huizi😄, a hilarious duo.
May we walk with wisdom together. I focus on spiritual growth and hope to connect with you. Meeting is the beginning of understanding. Thank you!🙏💛
I hope all is well with you. Happy to connect. All the best 🙏
Thank you 🙏💛
This is fascinating. Thank you. The level of understanding about the Dao one can draw from your exposition and examples is remarkable and certainly goes a long way to comprehending more deeply what the levers of this essential part of Chinese culture offer the world.
Throughout your narrative, the relevance (or not) of consciousness, especially in the example of Hui-zi and Zhuang-zi is something that repeatedly comes to my mind.
Both friends are aware of the strain on their relationship that Hui-zi's upgraded social status as prime minister of Liang has brought to their exchanges. And though Zhuang-zi appears to be the more relaxed or in-tune with the Dao they are both supposed to be embracing or living, it cannot be denied that both are affected by and very much aware of how the world in which they live and which they share to some degree impacts their lives.
Additionally, Zhuang-zi's response to his friend Hui-zi shows 2 traits that are intrinsically related to the reality/phenomenon of consciousness:
1. A true concern and care for the human condition, the suffering and waste it is prone to generate for itself when the Dao is not tred,
and
2. The expression of a form of judgement which differentiates between what is 'of the Dao' and what is not, and which in Zhuang-zi's case allows him to reject direct involvement in the sociopolitical sphere while, in contrast, steers Hui-zi towards the sphere of political power.
Both these traits seem to me at once unavoidable and descriptive of the Dao in so far as they cannot be separated from the individuals involved (in this case Zhuang-zi and Hui-zi) and the way they live their lives.
One more element appears quite important in the 'philosophy of Dao' (if we can call it that). The constant beneficial relatedness to nature, natural phenomena, animals and plants and their more than metaphorical use as ways for humans to correlate to the Dao despite sounding and feeling appropriate could also be considered 'a form of fallacy' in so far as humans by means of self-consciousness (what I call 'the consciousness of being') are quite different from the rest of natural phenomena, from owls, from the North and East seas, from the wind, and nature as a whole. Humans are self-conscious unlike other sentient beings insofar as they can attempt to change the way in which they live their own existence away from nature or against the Dao.
It is therefore, the unavoidable and inevitably influencing play of human consciousness and its two prevailing traits (namely: judgement and care/love for sentient beings and nature including their own selves) that seem to me to point to a living Dao that must perhaps transcend not just nature, but human nature as well.
Not sure whether this makes sense. Let me know what you think if you get some time.
Thanks again.
Thanks so much for sharing such wonderful reflections with me! I really like the angle you chose for this story, the human condition in the area of consciousness.
Both philosophers would be very much aware of the strain of relations between them, as you pointed out, knowing that this is what power or political/social status can bring about. Given the peculiar circumstances in the Warring States period, where wars and interstate conflicts were prevalent, both would understand what political participation meant for personal lives, especially scholars like themselves.
From the perspective of political involvement, Hui Tzu may share a similar spirit with the Confucians, having a stock of faith in political order to make things right. The assumption they may also share is that, despite the suffering and human struggles, there might be something reasonable and reliable in the social/political, cultural, and moral order to be built, modified, or reformed.
For Zhuangzi, the problem goes deeper in the sense that human consciousness may not have identified this disconnection with the natural Dao or, even worse, has rationalized this deviation, either for the reason of survival, preservation of power and status, or some other cause that justifies specific modes of action.
It follows that if the fundamental problem is existential and spiritual, can political solutions fix things? If the political order itself were not aligned with the natural order/the Dao (that follows what is natural), would it be possible for it to truly empower and nourish the development of individuals or reform the human condition?
So, for Zhuangzi, there is certainly an element of personal reevaluation and judgment on social and political matters: are things moving in the direction of the Dao? If not, am I eligible to restore things through political participation?
I would say that Zhuangzi's personal rejection of the political post does not necessarily negate his trust in human potential, which is practiced by Hui Tzu's political involvement in this case. He might also be thinking there'll always be someone better positioned and naturally endowed to do the political job than himself.
To improve the quality of existence, therefore, following the Dao is based on the presumption that there is something inherently problematic about the state of existence. This points to the human heart-mind problem. So, judgment from the perspective of the Dao and care/empathy toward the myriad things become a path of transcendence, for we can only see things clearly with a particular distance and become detached when the force of ego and human-centric inclinations are eliminated.
Thanks so much for your thoughts.